Publisher HYPER REAL and Japanese indie development team SAFE HAVN STUDIO released Saeko: Giantess Dating Sim on May 29 for PC (Steam). In this narrative-driven adventure game set in 2000s Japan, you wake up one day to find yourself shrunken to a tiny size. The giant Saeko appears before you, and you are forced to live inside a drawer of her desk alongside other tiny people she has captured.
Saeko entrusts you, Rin, with the role of supervisor, leaving you in charge of managing the other captives during the day. During the night, you become her confidant, listening to her vent. Gameplay is divided into point-and-click sections where you manage the stats of the other tiny people, and nighttime sections where you interact with Saeko and make choices that could mean life or death.
Automaton recently sat down for a talk with kyp, one of Saeko’s creators at SAFE HAVN STUDIO, and Christopher Ortiz from Sukeban Games, the creator of the hit visual novel VA-11 Hall-A. We talked about Saeko: Giantess Dating Sim and Sukeban’s upcoming .45 Parabellum Bloodhound, delving into both developers’ creative styles and what they think about each other’s work.
Saeko: Giantess Dating Sim – a game that wouldn’t have existed without VA-11 Hall-A
―Please introduce yourselves.
kyp:
I’m kyp, one of SAVE HAVN STUDIO’s three members. I originally started out as a programmer, but I’ve always enjoyed making music, drawing and writing too. For Saeko, I worked on programming, scenario writing, music, and some of the graphics.
Christopher Ortiz (hereafter Chris):
I’m Christopher Ortiz from Sukeban Games. Online, I go by Chris or kiririn51. For VA-11 Hall-A, I was responsible for the art, scenario writing, and direction. Currently, I’m working on the new title we announced last year, .45 Parabellum Bloodhound (hereafter .45PB). It’s turning into a bigger project than expected, but I’m giving it my all.
—Did you know of each other’s games before this interview?
Chris:
Yes, I first encountered Saeko at Tokyo Indies and played the demo. Saeko’s the kind of character who gets mad at you when you talk to her, but also gets mad at you when you don’t – she’s terrifying in a very realistic way. It’s hard to put into words, but my first impression was that the game has a strange, magnetic charm that draws you in.
—The game kind of balances both Saeko’s allure and sinister vibes, but which side stood out more to you?
Chris:
Honestly, what struck me the most was the game’s punk spirit. Saeko feels like it’s rebelling against traditional pixel art in its own way. As I played the game, my inner “pixel art police” started to awaken a little, but after a while I realized, “No, this is the point. It’s meant to be like this,” and that made me appreciate it even more.
The way the text is displayed, the way Saeko is meticulously detailed while other characters have a more doodle-like aesthetic. At first glance, it looks unusual and a bit like a mishmash, but that rebellious mix of styles really worked for me.
—Well, kyp, would you say there’s a punk spirit within your team?
kyp:
Yes, I think so. The graphics were handled by two of us – my friend koh, who is an illustrator, did the more detailed pixel art, while I did the doodle-like art that Chris mentioned. koh was really set on making “the kind of pixel art that’s never been done before.” They deliberately broke the rules of traditional pixel art, drawing in a rough style and leaving behind extra lines, and I think that actually turned out to be a strength.
Chris:
Also, Saeko is split into different segments: the conversation scenes, the sacrifice selection, and the deceptively calm nighttime sections – which reminded me a bit of VA-11 Hall-A’s structure. The short sections make it easy to play until you reach a good stopping point, which I appreciated.
And the way Saeko is always watching in every scene…that really sent chills down my spine. The scariest part, for me, was when I tried to check my messages before bed, and Saeko just hit a button and closed it.
―Were these the kinds of impressions you were going for (to kyp)?
kyp:
Chris mentioned that Saeko felt similar to VA-11 Hall-A, and honestly, it’s heavily influenced by it. In VA-11 Hall-A, each in-game day is split into two short segments, and I remember wondering why I could progress through it so smoothly without ever getting bored. I realized that it was thanks to this structure, so I decided to design Saeko in a similar way, stacking smaller elements into one, cohesive game. That approach was borrowed directly from VA-11 Hall-A.
As for how Saeko’s always watching you in the game – I tend to come up with ideas as I’m programming, and I wanted the game to explore the theme of “fearing the giantess,” so this was one of the elements that I added to fit that idea.
Chris:
Maybe that’s why, but I felt like that constant tension – like what you’d feel when playing a Resident Evil or Silent Hill game – was executed very well. If you’re into giantesses, it might be delightful, but since I’m not into that, it was a terrifying experience throughout.
―What was your first impression of Sukeban Games work (to kyp)?
kyp:
I first played VA-11 Hall-A back when I barely knew anything about indie games, and it really struck me emotionally. It was actually one of the main reasons I decided to try making indie games myself.
I also played .45PB at Tokyo Indies, but even before that, I had been reading Chris’s monthly dev blogs from when the project was still titled “Project D.” I didn’t even know what kind of game it was at that point, but the screenshots alone made me think, “This looks so cool.”
―If you’ve been reading their dev blogs, you must be a big fan of Sukeban Games and VA-11 Hall-A.
kyp:
I’m a huge fan actually, which is why I’m kind of nervous talking to Chris right now (laughs)
― (laughs) VA-11 Hall-A has had a major influence on other works since its release. Chris, how does it feel to meet a fellow developer who was so directly inspired by your work?
Chris:
I was the same back in high school – playing games and dreaming of making them, but having no clue how to start. Then I encountered games by Suda51 like Killer7 and No More Heroes, and that really pushed me to take game development seriously. So to hear that VA-11 Hall-A, a game I made, became someone else’s turning point in a similar way, makes me incredibly happy.
―Saeko’s title includes the tagline “Giantess Dating Sim,” but if you were to assign a genre to it, would you call it horror, or perhaps an adventure game (to Chris)?
kyp:
Oh, I’d just like to mention that the title “Saeko: Giantess Dating Sim” was completely inspired by VA-11 Hall-A and its subtitle “Cyberpunk Bartender Action” (laughs).
Chris:
I personally love games that have subtitles like that, and VA-11 Hall-A’s “Cyberpunk Bartender Action” was actually inspired by Metal Geal Solid’s “Tactical Espionage Action.” Our new game, .45PB, also has a rather long subtitle – “Cyberpunk Active Time Action.” As for Saeko, perhaps I’d describe it as “Giantess Dating Action.”
Kyp:
I want to rename it now (laughs). Just for one day, maybe Apil 1.
Chris: You can make a Metal Gear Solid-style April Fool’s minigame where Rin hides in cardboard boxes (laughs).
―I would love to see that (laughs). What do you feel when playing Sukeban Games’ works (to kyp)?
kyp:
I’ve always loved pixel art, and VA-11 Hall-A has this nostalgic vibe and city pop-inspired music that I really enjoyed. What really struck me was that the game doesn’t revolve around a typical narrative about defeating an enemy or some kind of evil. It’s more about just trying to survive in the world as it is. That really left an impact on me.
―True, it’s a game that doesn’t try to resolve everything.
kyp:
Exactly. If I were actually living in that world, I doubt I’d be able to solve anything either (laughs). It was surprising for me in a refreshing way.
Chris:
That was exactly the idea when we made VA-11 Hall-A, so I’m really happy that came through. Life in Venezuela at the time was incredibly rough – just getting through each day was a challenge. That feeling is what I tried to express in the game and convey to players.
It’s not like I wanted to convey how miserable things were. It was more like: “These were our daily lives, and in order to survive and live happily, we just had to get through each day.” That’s what I wanted VA-11 Hall-A to communicate. There are no epic efforts to solve some kind of huge incident, and despite the word “Action” in the subtitle, there’s no action gameplay whatsoever. But that was all intentional, and I’m glad it landed as intended.
kyp:
As for .45PB, I initially had this image of it being another 2D game like VA-11 Hall-A, so I was really surprised when I saw it was in 3D. But once I played it, I could tell it was made by the same people – it had that same kind of underlying conviction behind it, and I was really glad I played it.
Chris:
That you sensed the same kind of conviction is really surprising to me, but I’m very happy to hear it. Honestly, I’m not the kind of person who creates based on a firm philosophy. I just make whatever I want to make at the time. So it’s a pleasant surprise when people recognize a consistent style in that.
―Both Saeko and Sukeban’s games are very original in that they don’t feel modeled after other titles. How did you approach things like game pacing and design?
kyp:
With Saeko, we always had the underlying theme of “being subjected to hardship by a giant girl” as our axis. So before writing the scenario, we brainstormed various gameplay systems to see how we could best deliver that theme. We actually came up with a few different patterns and showed them to our publisher. In the end, we went with the one that made the scenario easiest to write, fit the theme best, and had the fewest restrictions. From there, we built the story.
―So rather than pursuing a clear final vision, you played around with different ideas.
kyp:
That’s right, I did think a lot about how I wanted to make the player feel, but the gameplay system itself didn’t really come together until well into development.
—What were some of the earlier versions like?
kyp:
Actually, there was a version that really paid homage to VA-11 Hall-A. In it, you had a drawer full of items you could combine to make new ones, and then you’d give those to the other tiny captives. I think I still have the UI for that somewhere. But I struggled to write a scenario around it, so I eventually settled on the game’s current style.
Sukeban Games posted prototype images of VA-11 Hall-A on their blog once. I’d like to write a blog like that once development is finished, though I’m not sure when that’ll be (laughs).
―I’d love to see those earlier versions someday, so I’ll be waiting for your dev blog! Chris, how did you approach VA-11 Hall-A’s development?
Chris:
My guiding principle was to avoid making anything I didn’t feel like making. I was in charge of the artwork, and I wanted to draw cute girls. But for a typical visual novel game, you’d have to draw elaborate backgrounds for various scenes, and I didn’t feel like doing that. That’s why I chose a bar as the game’s setting.
―That’s very practical of you (laughs).
Chris:
That’s also why I made Jill’s room very simple instead of going for something visually rich. In this sense, I can really relate to how kyp chose Saeko’s game design based on what came with the least constraints.
I think game designers should always be asking themselves not only “What do I want to make?” but also “What do I want to avoid making?” I say this as a kind of self-reflection, but I really don’t like dealing with things like parameters or UI. And yet, I decided to make an RPG like .45PB that requires all that. I’m regretting that big time now, and I don’t think you’ll see parameters or UI in any of my future games after .45PB (laughs).
Everyone:
(laughs)
I want this game to wreck players’ lives
―Earlier, you mentioned making decisions based on “what you want to make the player feel” as they play. What kind of experience were you going for in Saeko?
kyp:
I’ve always loved reading novels – especially novels that deal with erotic or grotesque themes, so I wanted to recreate that kind of experience through a game. That said, I didn’t want to go for simple shock value, I wanted to make something that players would find worthwhile.
―Frankly, I was expecting you to say you wanted to completely mess people up emotionally or something.
kyp:
Well, now that you mention it, the original concept for Saeko actually came from an erotic novel I read on an indie author’s website back in the 2000s. I was very young when I encountered it, and it kind of messed up my life. So yeah, I actually did want players to experience something similar (laughs).
Chris:
I definitely felt that while playing Saeko. It’s bound to resonate with players who are into that kind of thing, but I think it can also open new doors for players who aren’t. I feel like when creators put that kind of raw energy into their work, it really makes the game better. In VA-11 Hall-A, it’s the cute girls that draw you in first, but then the story hooks you in next – I think we were able to create something that strikes a chord with players both visually and narratively. I hope Saeko becomes a classic in its own niche sphere, opening doors for a lot of people.
kyp:
That means a lot. Thank you so much.
— Saeko has a very artistic feeling to it, so I wasn’t sure if it was okay to look at it with any kind of… baser instincts. Is that allowed?
kyp:
I’ve definitely gotten a little too excited about it on occasions, so yes, it’s totally okay to approach Saeko in that way. (laughs) Actually, it’s not just explicit content that makes erotic novels feel sensual, it’s artistic sensibility too. Some of them can possess a depth that resonates with you the more you re-read them, so I think that sexual appeal and artistic quality are actually quite connected.
Chris:
If we’re talking eroticism and artistry, the key difference between something banned on Steam for obvious shock value and games like Baldur’s Gate 3 or The Witcher 3, which include sex and nudity, is whether those elements serve the story and how. I think it’s all about balance.
In Saeko’s case, I’m not personally into the giantess kink, but when her hand would loom over me, threatening to crush me, or when I saw the detailed lines of her palm, even I had moments where I thought “Yeah, I get it.” Even if you’re not into it, these scenes don’t feel overdone – they just feel terrifying, which is why I think it’s really well executed.
kyp:
I feel like the conversation is taking a strange turn… (laughs) But yeah, as Chris said, I love giantesses, and of course I’m trying to appeal to that interest, but I also don’t want these elements to feel out of place to the people just playing the game as a regular visual novel.
On the game’s X account, we’ve had people beg us to show the inside of Saeko’s mouth, the inside of her stomach and to have her crush the protagonist with her feet. While I am happy to receive such requests, they’re not something that would work with our game’s scenario. On the other hand, the hand scene Chris mentioned – stuff like that fits right into our game system, which is why we used it. I’m really happy that it hit the mark.
—And what about .45PB? What kind of message are you aiming for, and what kind of experience do you want players to have?
Chris:
With VA-11 Hall-A, the main message was, “No matter what happens, you need to get up and live each day.” But I didn’t want to repeat that exact same theme, so with .45PB, the message became: “No matter what you do or what happens around you, live your life in pursuit of your own happiness.” No matter what that pursuit leads to, I want people to find the strength to keep going. There are people out there dealing with war, economic instability – things that are far beyond their control. I hope this game gives them the strength to keep moving forward.
Describing Saeko and .45PB through each other’s eyes
—For this last part, rather than discussing your own games, could each of you introduce the other’s game from your perspective?
Chris:
Oh, that’s an unusual request. Let me think for a second…
kyp:
When I played the .45PB demo, the first thing that stood out to me was how cool everything looked. I’m not great at action games, but .45PB’s system gives you time to stop and think about your moves, so you can enjoy it even if you don’t have super sharp reflexes. It’s an entertaining game that gives you the satisfaction of improving the more you play.
Also, although the atmosphere is completely different from VA-11 Hall-A, the characters are really cute (laughs). There’s one named America who shows up when you die and curses you out – I loved her immediately.
I think fans of VA-11 Hall-A will recognize the same sensibilities in 45PB, and as a 3D game, it’s just plain fun. I hope lots of people give it a try. …My introduction kind of turned into a review, but I hope it works. (laughs)
—I think it was a great description, even your unique tastes shined through (laughs).
Chris:
When I played Saeko, the main thing I felt was nostalgia. It’s set in 2008, and it totally brought back memories of browsing adult sites on a Nokia phone, so that hit me in an unexpected way.
And the pacing is relaxed overall, but then you have these terrifying conversations with Saeko, and major choices suddenly pop up that can result in characters dying one by one. The whole game is a well-crafted package. I think some people will buy it expecting it to be just a fetish game, but it betrays that notion in a good way, and I think it’s a title that can appeal to a wide range of people.
kyp:
Thank you so much. That really means a lot.
—I think this has been a truly respectful and insightful conversation between two creators who understand each other’s work. Thank you both for your time!
Saeko: Giantess Dating Sim is out now for PC (Steam). Sukeban Games’ .45 Parabellum Bloodhound is currently in development.
[Writer, editor: Koutaro Sato]
[Interviewer, editor: Ayuo Kawase]
[Support, Interpreter: Taku Yamanaka]
